An In-N-Out Burger drive-thru at night, the scene of the shooting rampage.'Good Guy With a Gun' Debate Reignites After Idaho Shooting
Left says
- •Individual acts of bravery like Jordan Salinas's do not settle broader questions about whether widespread civilian gun ownership makes communities safer overall, since armed bystanders successfully intercept only a small fraction of active shooter incidents.
- •Relying on armed citizens as the primary check against mass shootings places enormous risk and split-second life-or-death judgment calls on ordinary people, rather than addressing root causes like access to firearms for individuals like Chad Williams.
- •Celebrating 'good guy with a gun' outcomes can distract from policy conversations about background checks, red flag laws, and restrictions that might prevent shooters from obtaining weapons in the first place.
- •Cases like the Salt Lake City shooting, where an armed bystander mistakenly killed an innocent demonstrator, show that adding more guns to a chaotic scene carries real risks of tragic error.
Right says
- •Jordan Salinas trained for years anticipating exactly this kind of threat, motivated by having witnessed the 2021 Boise mall shooting and by caring for his wheelchair-bound brother, whom he saw as a vulnerable 'soft target.'
- •Salinas and an off-duty state trooper are credited by police with driving the gunman away from the restaurant and preventing further casualties, demonstrating that armed citizens can meaningfully change the outcome of an active shooting.
- •Critics who dismiss the 'good guy with a gun' concept as a myth often ignore or undercount numerous real-world cases—in Indianapolis, Chicago, Illinois, and elsewhere—where armed civilians stopped or mitigated violent attacks.
- •FBI active-shooter statistics undercounting incidents and mischaracterizing armed civilians' roles may significantly understate how often citizens successfully intervene, according to independent research from the Crime Prevention Research Center.
Common Take
High Consensus- Jordan Salinas and an off-duty Idaho state trooper returned fire on gunman Chad Williams during the August 2026 Twin Falls In-N-Out shooting.
- The attack killed three people and injured seven before Williams died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
- Twin Falls Police Chief Matthew Hicks credited the two armed bystanders with helping drive the suspect from the scene and preventing further casualties.
- Salinas began firearms training after witnessing the 2021 Boise Towne Square mall shooting, driven by concern for his wheelchair-bound brother's safety.
The Arguments
Left argues
Individual acts of heroism like Salinas's don't answer the population-level question of whether widespread armed citizenry actually reduces gun deaths, since FBI data show armed bystanders stop only a small fraction of active shooter incidents.
Right counters
The Crime Prevention Research Center argues the FBI dataset itself is badly incomplete, missing hundreds of incidents and undercounting citizen interventions, meaning the true rate of successful civilian defense is likely far higher than official statistics suggest.
Right argues
Salinas and an off-duty trooper are directly credited by Twin Falls police with driving the gunman away from the restaurant and preventing further casualties, a concrete real-world case where armed intervention changed the outcome.
Left counters
One successful outcome doesn't establish a reliable policy framework; relying on chance encounters with trained, armed civilians as the primary safeguard is a fragile substitute for systemic prevention like background checks and red flag laws that stop shooters before they act.
Left argues
The Salt Lake City protest shooting, where an armed volunteer safety team member killed an innocent demonstrator by mistake, shows that adding more guns to a chaotic, high-stress scene carries real risk of tragic error, not just heroic outcomes.
Right counters
A single tragic misfire doesn't invalidate the concept any more than a botched fire-extinguisher use would argue for banning extinguishers; the relevant comparison is how often armed civilians act safely and effectively versus how often they don't, and multiple documented cases in Indianapolis, Chicago, and Illinois show successful, non-tragic interventions.
Right argues
Cases like Elisjsha Dicken in Indianapolis and multiple concealed-carry interventions in Illinois and Chicago suggest armed citizen defense happens more often than the 'myth' framing acknowledges, and media coverage often downplays or qualifies these successes even while reporting them.
Left counters
Highlighting a handful of successful cases nationwide, even if real, doesn't change the base-rate reality that mass shootings are overwhelmingly ended by something other than armed bystanders, and cherry-picked anecdotes can't substitute for systematic evidence on what policies actually reduce gun deaths.
Left argues
Celebrating 'good guy with a gun' stories risks crowding out harder policy conversations about how shooters like Chad Williams obtain firearms in the first place, since preventing access to weapons addresses the root cause rather than relying on split-second civilian responses after violence has already begun.
Right counters
The Second Amendment right to self-defense doesn't depend on proving armed civilians stop most mass shootings, and pursuing both firearm access policy and support for armed self-defense aren't mutually exclusive; dismissing real cases like Salinas's to protect a policy argument ignores the lives plausibly saved that day.
Challenge Questions
These questions target genuine internal contradictions — meant to provoke honest reflection.
Right asks Left
“If armed bystanders successfully intervene in even a modest number of cases as CPRC's expanded dataset suggests, why should acknowledging that reality be seen as a distraction from policy debates rather than one legitimate data point among several to weigh?”
Left asks Right
“If the CPRC's methodology reclassifies incidents specifically to produce a much higher civilian-stopped rate than the FBI's own figures, what standard should be used to determine which count is more reliable, and does relying on an advocacy-funded research center's numbers undercut the argument that official statistics are being unfairly dismissed?”
Outlier Report
Left Fringe
Activists and outlets like Everytown for Gun Safety, Giffords Law Center, and commentators such as Fred Guttenberg (Parkland father) who argue 'good guy with a gun' is entirely mythical and dangerous; this represents roughly 15-20% of the left, with most Democrats/moderates still respecting individual heroism while favoring more gun regulation overall.
Right Fringe
Figures like John Lott (Crime Prevention Research Center) and commentators who argue FBI data massively undercounts armed civilian interventions and that virtually no gun restrictions are needed; this hardline anti-regulation stance represents about 20-25% of the right, with many center-right voters still supporting some measures like background checks even while praising Salinas.
Noise Assessment
High noise ratio — social media virality (e.g., Mario Nawfal's amplification) and ideological outlets on both sides use this single incident as a proxy for the entire gun debate, when most Americans likely hold nuanced views that don't fit neatly into either camp's talking points.
Sources (5)
35-year-old Jordan Salinas was seen on video returning fire as a gunman carried out a deadly shooting out an In-N-Out restaurant in Twin Falls, Idaho.
<img src="https://www.theblaze.com/media-library/heroic-bystander-who-fired-at-gunman-suspected-in-deadly-shooting-at-idaho-in-n-out-shares-how-he-prepared-for-the-danger.png?id=67572345&width=1245&height=700&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C31" /><br /><br /><p>Jordan Salinas told the <a href="https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article316743551.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Idaho Statesman</a> he pulled up to the In-N-Out Burger off of Blue Lakes Boulevard in Twin Falls around 2:30 p.m. Saturday when he saw people running out of the fast-food restaurant.</p><p>The 35-year-old thought it was a kitchen fire, the Statesman said — until he heard the “pop-pop-pop” of gunshots.</p><p class="pull-quote">'As soon as some rounds started coming at him, everything changed ... all that bravado he had immediately crumbled.'</p><p><span></span>Salinas <a href="https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/idaho-n-shooting-good-samaritan-002424746.html" target="_blank">added to ABC News</a> that he saw a person aiming a rifle at passing cars: "I peeked around the right-hand side of that sign closest to the road, and that's where I saw the individual with his rifle pointed at the vehicles."</p><p>Turns out Salinas happened upon a <a href="https://www.theblaze.com/news/suspect-in-deadly-shooting-at-idaho-in-n-out-died-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-2-heroic-bystanders-fired-at-him-police" target="_blank">deadly shooting at the fast-food restaurant</a> — which opened for business only last month — that took the lives of three victims and left seven others injured.</p><p>Salinas did not run from the danger; instead he ran toward it, the Statesman said, adding that Salinas characterized his response as “automatic” and “mechanical."</p><p>The paper said Salinas reached for his shoulder holster and pulled his FN Five-Seven — a semi-automatic gun with a suppressor on the barrel — and then went through four steps borrowed from the military that he'd been drilling every week for years.</p><p>More from the Statesman:</p><blockquote><em>Observe.</em> Salinas ran from the car, gun drawn. Video posted to social media shows a man slinking behind In-N-Out signs and shrubs, seeking out the source of the gunfire.<br /><br /><em>Orient. </em>Hidden from view, he established sight lines. He reminded himself to stay disciplined on the trigger. Soon, he saw a man, who police later identified as 24-year-old Chad Williams, standing by the drive-through window. He watched as Williams lifted a rifle to his shoulder and fired toward cars.<br /> <br /><em>Decide.</em> “OK,” Salinas thought. “This is the guy.”<br /> <br /><em>Act.</em> He leveled his pistol with both hands and fired.</blockquote><p>Salinas told ABC News the suspect seemed calm as he aimed at cars but that his demeanor shifted once shots were fired in his direction.</p><p>"He seemed unusually comfortable aiming that rifle at those cars," Salinas noted to the news network, adding that "as soon as some rounds started coming at him, everything changed ... all that bravado he had immediately crumbled."</p><p><strong>RELATED: </strong><a href="https://www.theblaze.com/news/suspect-in-deadly-shooting-at-idaho-in-n-out-died-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-2-heroic-bystanders-fired-at-him-police" target="_blank"><strong>Suspect in deadly shooting at Idaho In-N-Out died of self-inflicted gunshot wound; 2 'heroic' bystanders fired at him: Police</strong></a></p><p class="shortcode-media shortcode-media-youtube"> <span class="rm-shortcode" style="display: block; padding-top: 56.25%;"></span></p><p>Salinas told the Statesman he felt “no fear” before, during, or after pulling the trigger.</p><p>“There’s a task that needs to be done, and we’re the ones who need to do it,” he added to the paper.</p><p>Salinas wasn't alone in defending others that day. The other good guy with a gun was an off-duty state trooper, Twin Falls Police Chief Matthew Hicks told the <a href="https://apnews.com/article/twin-falls-idaho-shooting-fast-food-restaurant-2b1104d872124c2733faec0ddb89ffc4" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Associated Press</a>, adding that their efforts diverted the gunman from the In-N-Out.</p><p>“We believe their actions helped drive the suspect away from the scene, preventing further casualties,” the chief said, according to the AP. “We want to take a moment and commend the actions of the off-duty officer and the citizen and their heroic action to stop this incident.”</p><p>Police who responded to the shooting found the body of the suspected gunman — identified as 24-year-old Chad Williams — in an area near the restaurant, Twin Falls spokesperson Josh Palmer said, according to the AP. The outlet, citing police, said the suspect died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.</p><p>Salinas is a health care worker — the full-time caregiver of his wheelchair-bound brother — the Statesman said, adding that he began training seriously after a 2021 shooting at the Boise Towne Square mall took the lives of two victims and injured several more.</p><p>Gunmen, Salinas told the paper, went after “soft targets" — and that a person in a wheelchair and his aide would be as soft as they come.</p><p>So Salinas has been shooting on weekends and training in the desert outside of Eden, a small town in eastern Jerome County, the Statesman said.</p><p>However, the paper said Salinas had never even pointed his gun at an animal and never thought he’d need to use anything he was practicing.</p><p>“Everyone says, ‘It’s not going to happen here,’” Salinas noted to the Statesman. “But what if it does?” </p><p>On Sunday, the day after the deadly shooting, Salinas’ drinks at his regular coffee shop were on the house, the paper said, adding that friends and strangers shook his hand.</p><p>“My buddies are over at Sportsman’s buying ammo because of you,” a customer said, according to the Statesman.</p><p>The paper added that another customer opened his computer to a meme showing Salinas’ bearded silhouette in black against the yellow of a Gadsden flag with a pistol pointed across the screen — and underneath was a three-word phrase:</p><p>“Idaho shoots back.” </p><p><em>Like Blaze News? Bypass the censors, sign up for our newsletters, and get stories like this direct to your inbox. </em><em><a href="https://www.theblaze.com/newsletters/theblaze-articlelink" target="_self">Sign up here</a></em><em>!</em></p>
<img src="https://www.theblaze.com/media-library/jordan-salinas-another-good-guy-with-a-gun-ruins-the-gun-control-lobby-s-narrative.jpg?id=67569005&width=1245&height=700&coordinates=0%2C0%2C0%2C1" /><br /><br /><p><em></em>Jordan Salinas had already seen one mass shooting.</p><p>In October 2021, he was at the Boise Towne Square mall when a gunman opened fire, killing two people and wounding several others. Salinas <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/03/in-n-out-shooting-idaho" target="_blank">remembers</a> thinking about his brother, who uses a wheelchair, and what would happen if the two of them ever found themselves trapped in such a situation.</p><p class="pull-quote">Fire extinguishers can be used incorrectly too. That's not an argument for limiting their use to professional firefighters.</p><p>So he did something about it. He began training.</p><p>Last Saturday afternoon, almost five years later, Salinas and his girlfriend pulled into the parking lot of the newly opened In-N-Out Burger in Twin Falls, Idaho. People were streaming out of the restaurant. At first, Salinas figured there had been some kind of kitchen fire.</p><p>Then he heard gunshots.</p><p>What happened next is worth lingering over, if only because we've been told so many times that it doesn't really happen.</p><p>Salinas drew the semiautomatic pistol he was carrying and moved toward the shooting.</p><p>The gunman, identified by police as 24-year-old Chad Williams, had already killed three people and wounded seven. Salinas fired at him. So did an off-duty Idaho state trooper who happened to be nearby.</p><p>Neither man delivered the movie-ending kill shot. Williams eventually died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.</p><p>But Twin Falls Police Chief Matthew Hicks says their intervention mattered. "We believe their actions drove the suspect from the scene, preventing further casualties," <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twin-falls-idaho-in-n-out-shooting/" target="_blank">he said</a>.</p><p>In other words, not one, but two good guys with a gun showed up. And things could have been a lot worse if they hadn't. </p><h2>Myth busters</h2><p>If the phrase "good guy with a gun" sounds corny, blame former NRA chief Wayne LaPierre, who turned it into a slogan after the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre.</p><p>"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," LaPierre <a href="https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/12/21/167785169/live-blog-nra-news-conference" target="_blank">famously said</a>.</p><p>Ever since, journalists and gun-control advocates have devoted considerable energy to informing us that this seemingly self-evident proposition is, in fact, <a href="https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/how-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-became-a-deadly-american-fantasy" target="_blank">a "fantasy."</a></p><p>Salon was still at it in 2024, <a href="https://www.salon.com/2024/02/16/manipulation-of-fear-new-analysis-blows-hole-in-good-guy-with-a-gun-myth_partner/" target="_blank">publishing a story</a> headlined "'Manipulation of fear': New analysis blows hole in 'good guy with a gun' myth."</p><p>The article, originally published by Common Dreams, described armed self-defense as an "enduring myth" propagated by "right-wing politicians and the powerful gun lobby." The Center for American Progress <a href="https://www.americanprogress.org/article/debunking-the-guns-make-us-safer-myth/" target="_blank">report</a> on which it was based went further, calling the good-guy-with-a-gun idea one of the gun lobby's "most personal and insidious" myths.</p><p>"The Bulwark" wasn't troubled by ambiguity either. In a <a href="https://youtu.be/pivBY8nFAaA?si=6Lbexg6u9o4MHkIQ" target="_blank">2024 podcast episode</a> titled "Debunking the 'Good Guy with a Gun' Myth," it brought on gun-control activist Fred Guttenberg, whose 14-year-old daughter, Jaime, was murdered in the 2018 Parkland school shooting.</p><p>There's a grim irony here. Guttenberg is now among the Parkland family members suing the Broward Sheriff's Office over what they say was its negligent response to the massacre. Eight years later, the case is <a href="https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article316737238.html" target="_blank">finally headed toward trial</a>.</p><p>In other words, one of the men enlisted to debunk the usefulness of an armed "good guy" lost his daughter in a massacre in part because the armed good guys who were supposed to protect her failed to act.</p><h2>Exception or rule?</h2><p>On the rare occasion that the "myth" debunkers provide a real-world example, it doesn't always make the case they think it does.</p><p>Consider the Trace. The nonprofit newsroom devoted to gun violence returned to the familiar theme last December <a href="https://www.thetrace.org/newsletter/there-was-no-good-guy-with-a-gun-in-salt-lake-city/" target="_blank">with a story</a> headlined "There Was No 'Good Guy With a Gun' in Salt Lake City."</p><p>This time, at least, there was a good reason for the skepticism. An armed member of a volunteer safety team at a Salt Lake City No Kings protest opened fire on a man carrying a rifle and accidentally shot and killed an innocent demonstrator.</p><p>A tragic mistake? Absolutely. Evidence that an armed bystander can make a chaotic situation even worse? Certainly. That's one reason carrying a firearm entails considerably more responsibility than carrying a reusable shopping bag.</p><p>Evidence that the "good guy with a gun" is a myth? That's harder to see.</p><p> Especially considering how gun control advocates treat cases in which a bystander with a gun acted safely and responsibly. </p><h2>Faint praise</h2><p>I've <a href="https://www.theblaze.com/lifestyle/good-guy-with-a-gun-try-these-concealed-carry-bags" target="_blank">written about</a> this curious phenomenon before.</p><p>In July 2022, 20-year-old Jonathan Sapirman entered the Greenwood Park Mall outside Indianapolis carrying a rifle, a pistol, and more than 100 rounds of ammunition. He killed three people in just 15 seconds.</p><p>Then 22-year-old Elisjsha Dicken shot him.</p><p>Dicken was shopping with his girlfriend. He had no military or law-enforcement background. He was legally carrying a Glock pistol and, from roughly 40 yards away, hit Sapirman repeatedly, then moved closer while directing fleeing shoppers toward an exit.</p><p>Greenwood Police Chief James Ison called Dicken's actions "nothing short of heroic."</p><p><a href="https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/19/us/eli-dicken-indiana-mall-shooting-bystander" target="_blank">CNN agreed</a> — sort of.</p><p>"Making Dicken's heroism perhaps even more remarkable," the network explained, "is the fact cases of an armed bystander attacking an active shooter are rare."</p><p>Thanks, CNN.</p><p>And so the usual cycle plays out: Armed civilian stops a shooter; media reports it, when the story is too conspicuous to ignore; then somebody rushes in to remind readers that what they just watched happen never happens. </p><p><strong>RELATED: </strong><a href="https://www.theblaze.com/lifestyle/aim-true-anna-thomasson-sets-her-sights-on-empowering-women-through-firearms-training" target="_self"><strong>Aim true: Anna Thomasson sets her sights on empowering women through firearms training</strong></a></p><p class="shortcode-media shortcode-media-rebelmouse-image"> <img alt="" class="rm-shortcode" id="e221e" src="https://www.theblaze.com/media-library/image.jpg?id=67569076&width=980" /> <small class="image-media media-photo-credit">Matt Himes</small></p><h2>How often is 'never'?</h2><p>But are people like Elisjsha Dicken really that rare?</p><p>Last August, two gunmen opened fire on a house party in Harvey, Illinois, hitting five people, including a 4-year-old child. A <a href="https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/08/03/harvey-shooting/" target="_blank">concealed-carry license holder returned fire</a>, killing one alleged shooter and wounding the other, who was taken into custody.</p><p>Last year in Rapid City, South Dakota, police say a man attempting to steal merchandise from a convenience store pulled a knife when confronted by an employee. A customer <a href="https://kbhbradio.com/rapid-city-man-arrested-following-incident-at-convenience-store/" target="_blank">drew a pistol</a> and held him there until police arrived.</p><p>In the latter case, nobody got shot or stabbed. Funny how these stories sometimes end before there's much of a story to report.</p><p>In Chicago in October 2024, a 23-year-old man driving by saw another man fighting with a woman and stopped to help. Police say the other man pulled a gun. The bystander — a licensed concealed carrier — <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/man-shot-killed-by-bystander-saw-fighting-woman-chicago/" target="_blank">pulled his own</a> and shot him.</p><p>That same month, also in Chicago, a group of men allegedly attempted to carjack a 47-year-old driver, spraying him with some kind of chemical agent. The driver, another concealed-carry license holder, <a href="https://abc7chicago.com/post/chicago-shooting-ccl-holder-shoots-carjacking-suspect-82nd-street-ashland-avenue-gresham-cpd/15463296/" target="_blank">opened fire</a>, hitting one of the alleged attackers. He survived.</p><p>You can argue about any one of these cases. You can argue about gun laws, concealed carry, training requirements, crime rates, suicide, accidents, domestic shootings, or any of the other considerations that make gun policy more complicated than an NRA bumper sticker.</p><p>What you can't plausibly argue is that armed citizens never use guns successfully to defend themselves or other people.</p><p>Yet somehow we've moved from "How often does this happen?" to "It never happens."</p><h2>Disarming statistics</h2><p>According to the FBI's <a href="https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-united-states-report" target="_blank">active shooter reports</a>, armed citizens stopped just 14 of 350 active shooters between 2014 and 2023 — a measly 4%.</p><p>If that number sounds familiar, it should. It's the kind of statistic <a href="https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4295294-more-proof-that-more-guns-will-not-save-us/" target="_blank">regularly trotted out</a> to debunk the "good guy with a gun."</p><p>Economist John Lott's Crime Prevention Research Center says there's a big problem with that calculation: The FBI is missing a lot of active shooter incidents.</p><p>Applying what it says is the FBI's own definition of an active shooter, <a href="https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/watchdog-group-finds-massive-errors-fbi-data-related-civilians-stopping" target="_blank">CPRC found 515 incidents</a> over the same period — 165 additional shootings that never made it into the FBI dataset in the first place.</p><p>That's important because many of the missing incidents ended with an armed citizen stopping the shooter. If those shootings aren't classified as active shooter incidents, the good guys who stopped them don't get counted either.</p><p>CPRC also identified five cases the FBI did count but, it argues, mischaracterized the armed civilian's role. In two, armed civilians caused shooters to flee but weren't credited with stopping them because police later made the arrests. In two others, armed civilians were classified as security personnel.</p><p>Put it all together, and the difference is enormous: The FBI's reports credit armed citizens with stopping 14 of 350 active shooters, or 4%. CPRC says the actual number is 180 of 515, or 35%.</p><h2>Gun rights, right time</h2><p>Sometimes the guy with the gun isn't a good guy. Sometimes he's frightened, reckless, drunk, or stupid. Sometimes he mistakes the victim for the attacker. Sometimes the presence of another gun makes a chaotic situation even worse.</p><p>Fire extinguishers can be used incorrectly too. That's not an argument for limiting their use to professional firefighters. </p><p>And here's the strange thing about this whole debate: The "good guy with a gun" isn't even the principal argument for the right to own a gun.</p><p>The Second Amendment doesn't guarantee Americans the right to keep and bear arms on the condition that a sufficient number of them eventually stop mass shootings. Nor does anyone need to prove that armed civilians routinely save the day in order to justify owning a firearm for self-defense.</p><p>The occasional good guy who happens to be in the right place when a bad guy starts shooting is simply one of the benefits of living in a country where ordinary citizens can be armed.</p><p>Jordan Salinas acted heroically. If there's a general "lesson" to be derived from his actions, it's one that is modest and hard to dispute: When a murderous man starts shooting innocent people, having another responsible, trained, and courageous person nearby who can shoot back can make a difference.</p><p>That appears to be precisely what happened in Twin Falls. How often does it have to happen before we can stop pretending it doesn't?</p>
Jordan Salinas had trained for years for a moment like this. When gunman Chad Williams opened fire at a Twin Falls, Idaho, In-N-Out, he was ready.